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FTE Kaz-Ka

Emergency Meeting 10/22/09

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Alumni dont worry, you will be heard, we will have this going on over IRC at least (Id like to get something a little better for this so any suggestions would be nice). And the reason that I am allowing this is because its not just one or two people that are mad/concerned about this, its quite a few people. And to be fair, I think they should be heard alongside the Alumni.

 

Say what you want about me in this but I'm remaining neutral, I wanna hear both sides to these concerns.

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could this be held over some sort of voice chat for the reason irc meetings take WAY to long and phone calls don't include everyone.

 

I propose steam chat b/c they have a irc like chat, as well as a voice button. Pretty sure most people have steam and wont require dling stuff. and its as simple of a system as one could possible get.

 

Just a proposal, it really would be nice if this was considered

see our chat/voice room at http://steamcommunity.com/groups/wcugaming

 

 

 

thanks

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You guys need to relax nobody is attacking anybody,recent events have made it clear that the current execs are not in control of the website, servers, ect...we have become too dependent on the Alumni and aid of people outside of this school...I speak for the club when i say alumni like adambomb, nickname, and mitch are very important and we dont want you guys to be sore over this...The point is, despite it not being allowed for people who dont go to the school to have any kind of power in the club, we need to tie up loose ends that are a risk to the sites security. There for all people that no longer attend the school should not have the ability to ban accounts, change code on website, delete posts, and they certainly should never have passwords and what not to access main control over the website. Only students should have these powers.

 

This would result in all old alumni memebers to lose access to various things, but this by no means that the alumni cant make suggestions, contributions, and continue to help. It will always be welcome. We just need the students to hold all positions and power. This also means we need to have students taught how to do the jobs that the alumni currently still do.

 

It is as simple as this and nothing more quit blowing things out of proportion please.

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I am, like Kaz-Ka, remaining very neutral on this issue.

 

Since I'm a relatively newer member of this club, I am slowly becoming aware of how badly our relationship with SGA has gone in the past.

 

Now that being said, I think that why Kaz-Ka and josrocket are pursuing this so actively is because our relationship with SGA is getting a lot better, especially after we (the gaming club) saved their bacon when their band cancelled on them (and there was a LOT of fun to be had. I know, because I was there instead of the meeting that was happening that night).

 

Kaz-Ka has been really working hard on repairing and rebuildimg the relationship with SGA, and I hope that you alumni can at least give him credit for that. He's not only one of the nicest guys in our club, but the fact that the relationship with the SGA is actually improving is a testament to how much effort Kaz-Ka has been putting into it this semester.

 

I too would like to hear what both sides think.

 

BJ

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You guys need to relax nobody is attacking anybody,recent events have made it clear that the current execs are not in control of the website, servers, ect...we have become too dependent on the Alumni and aid of people outside of this school...I speak for the club when i say alumni like adambomb, nickname, and mitch are very important and we dont want you guys to be sore over this...The point is, despite it not being allowed for people who dont go to the school to have any kind of power in the club, we need to tie up loose ends that are a risk to the sites security. There for all people that no longer attend the school should not have the ability to ban accounts, change code on website, delete posts, and they certainly should never have passwords and what not to access main control over the website. Only students should have these powers.

 

This would result in all old alumni memebers to lose access to various things, but this by no means that the alumni cant make suggestions, contributions, and continue to help. It will always be welcome. We just need the students to hold all positions and power. This also means we need to have students taught how to do the jobs that the alumni currently still do.

 

It is as simple as this and nothing more quit blowing things out of proportion please.

Who here has the experience to replace us?

 

Can you code PHP and CSS? No? Then you have no one to replace Adam and Raven.

 

Are you a monster at database queries? No? Then you have no one to replace Liam.

 

Can you code SM or have years of experience with gameservers and Windows 2003? No? Then you have no one to replace myself, Nickname, Lemm, or Adam37.

 

Btw, when you revoke our admins and the database dies in a month you'll just be screwed. Once you cross this bridge there's no going back because we won't come back to save your asses when the forums magically die or a gameserver crashes and won't turn on.

 

Josh, is this really about SGA or about your grudge against the alumni? Someone told me you were more involved with this than it appeared and your reply above pretty much confirms that. You need to drop this grudge. You were elected to represent the will and wishes of the alumni so why are you now advocating the exact opposite of what our wishes and desires are? If you can't fullfill you duties you need to resign from your position and let someone who's actually willing to represent us take that position.

 

Btw, there is no risk to site security. The security policies for off campus access are to the letter of what the campus server security director has mandated. What we're doing has been discussed with him and he's thinks it's ok.

 

Also, I'm still waiting for a link to the SGA rules you guys are talking about.

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And so what happens to the 3/4ths of the admin who fall under the category of not being a student like myself, toran, major, wispy, briefs, ex, veritas, rossy, and pretty much the majority of the admin community who take care of regulating server conduct? Are we going to be void of our rights to help maintain the online community?

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Mitch what is this grudge you speak of. I thought we were friends wtf...and your so called informant has completely misunderstood the situation due to only hearing half of the conversation...and why do you think this is all my idea...i just got sucked into this whole thing, this is not my doing nor is it mike's...I of all people know what you guys do and you can still do it but it has to be done through an actual student exec. Its only right. I will send you a message why this was brought to our attention and why this is being considered.

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Mitch what is this grudge you speak of. I thought we were friends wtf...and your so called informant has completely misunderstood the situation due to only hearing half of the conversation...and why do you think this is all my idea...i just got sucked into this whole thing, this is not my doing nor is it mike's...I of all people know what you guys do and you can still do it but it has to be done through an actual student exec. Its only right. I will send you a message why this was brought to our attention and why this is being considered.

 

"I've been saying we should get rid of them from the beginning."

"Mike, we seriously need to take away his access. Seriously."

"Don't worry, Ephraim. We'll take away all of their access. That way, it'll be fair."

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you can still do it but it has to be done through an actual student exec. Its only right.

So when I tell you to repair or run a backup query on a database you're going to know how to do that right? What if I tell you to recode a plugin to change the admin level required to execute a command on the TF2 server, you know how to do that?

 

Most of what we do I can't simply tell you to do because you don't know. It would take months to teach you what I do and years to learn what Adam and Liam do.

 

I'm still waiting for the SGA rules, btw.

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I could do it eventhough most of what you talked about isnt necessary or seldomly needs to be done. Do i want too? not completly, but i would if i had to, but despite that, its points like what you said above we are gonna discuss... we both know there are people on the list of admins that have no business being on there and some of the people on the list have permissions that they dont need or should not have and these need to be revised...Efrum you really need to quit stiring things up you obviously didnt hear the whole thing and what your claiming makes no sense because of lack of motive...I thought we were friends as well... wow the way you guys treat me makes me sick...I love how i always get the large end of the flaming when i didnt even start this...Just because i agree im am automatically the leader apparently and I have to defend everyone...thanks for that

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Efrum you really need to quit stiring things up you obviously didnt hear the whole thing and what your claiming makes no sense because of lack of motive...I thought we were friends as well... wow the way you guys treat me makes me sick...I love how i always get the large end of the flaming when i didnt even start this...Just because i agree im am automatically the leader apparently and I have to defend everyone...thanks for that

 

1. How could those quotes be taken out of context?

2. When did I call you the ringleader of this mess?

3. How are we friends? You can't even spell my name?

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I could do it eventhough most of what you talked about isnt necessary or seldomly needs to be done. Do i want too? not completly, but i would if i had to

The database for the stats system died last week and has done so several times in the last few months. You might be able to pick up enough SQL to be useful but when the *edited* hits the fan we need people at the top of their game. One wrong command on a damaged database means you have to explain to everyone why their stats or the forums just got erased.

 

You might be able to pick up SM relatively quickly but compared to Lemm or Liam, you'd be nothing. Hell I can barely hold a candle to either. It's stupid to push talent we have and know is top notch to the back burner simply because they don't live on campus. Hell Liam is on the Sourcemod development team, if that's not a resource the club can use I don't know what is.

 

Also, you can't pick up PHP and CSS in less than a few months. I tried it, failed hard, and moved on. These forums make what I was trying to do look like childsplay.

 

but despite that, its points like what you said above we are gonna discuss... we both know there are people on the list of admins that have no business being on there and some of the people on the list have permissions that they dont need or should not have and these need to be revised...

The list of gameserver admins isn't up for debate as only the CLs can make that determination and their elevated access is required to do their constitutionally allowed job. The alumni have elevated permissions so they can access the private sections and give advice to the more private discussions going on in the club. I hope this isn't up for debate, if so it makes absolutely no sense from an advisory standpoint. CL have elevated permissions as per their job requires. Execs have highest access and whenever someone is no longer in office they are lowered to the same level as alumni because their input is a valuable resource.

 

This leaves "root" and "semi-root" admins. There aren't many.

Semi-root:

AMerrill - club founder

Lemm - requires semi-root to use the new admin management system

 

Root:

Adam Faulkner - Webmaster and club founder

NoDice - club founder

Nickname - knows everyone in ITS, can get us anything

Raven - required for implementing the new forums skin

MasterP - running the game server, needs access to root-only section for password archiving and licensing

Liam - fixes the really bad breaks

Kaz-Ka - club president

 

This doesn't include the people who have access to the webadmin interface for the gameserver or FTP to either server. If you'd like I can detail those as well.

 

Who exactly were you thinking about revoking?

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I imagine some of you think of me as a traitor because I'm siding with the alumni on this one (honestly, it surprises me too), but understand: I don't have allegiance towards any one group or person in the club, just the club itself. I see something very sinister going on, like we are trying to betray the people who helped make this club great. That's someting I don't want to see happen.

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I imagine some of you think of me as a traitor because I'm siding with the alumni on this one (honestly, it surprises me too), but understand: I don't have allegiance towards any one group or person in the club, just the club itself. I see something very sinister going on, like we are trying to betray the people who helped make this club great. That's someting I don't want to see happen.

Siding with the alumni? No you are actually being reasonable. The very fact that this has even been brought up is ridiculous.

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I always wait till these sorts of posts get to the boiling point before i post. However this one is at a simmer and i would really like to keep it that way. I will have to say something. MasterP and I rarely agree on anything, but we work together for the common goal of the club. Some of the current execs LIKE the past exec's GXTI, Kuros and others that were on the exec team thought it would be a good idea to remove access from the alumni accounts because they thought 3 things

 

1. They could do our job

2. They needed to control the club for reasons of personal gain

3. They like you chose to hide behind some stupid rule that the university has.

 

1. You can't do our job and the people that thought they could do our job have left the club and dont even want a part of doing our job. The people who have always done their job are still here even after dirty water. NoDice, MasterP, Nickname, Liam, Split(well he does work sometimes and we love him), and some i am missing.

2. I think its a difference in opinions about what is going on with the club but someone is definitely trying to push someone out to gain something. It always shows up later when they fail. And with all us staring at you when this is done you will not be able to get a job in the industry by stabbing the very people who are going to hire and back you to get a job.

3. Yea they tried to hide behind the IT dept saying we didn't have privileges. The sad news for you guys is (if you were trying to get rid of me is) I have signed contracts between WCU and I for administration of servers for your Maintenance Department and have become a trusted consultant with many of WCU's professors, it departments, and the main funding for this club.

 

 

I don't know what to think and who is the target from this thread but Kaz-Ka if you still want all the help you give us you need to pick up the phone and call me TODAY! This is not something we should be doing early in the year after elections and i would really like to discuss this decision with you personally to see if it can be resolved soon.

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There's really nothing more to be said after Adam's post. You guys need to amend the constitution to clear up some wording and be done with it, there's no reason to demote the more valuable members of the club.

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I just have a few things to add.

 

When did Josrocket become a Alumni Advisor?

 

Now Josh Schwartz said that he didn't start this, but Josh you do realize you are hurting yourself as well? As you are also no longer a student at WCU, you also will lose all privileges. But of course you retain the privilege to offer suggestions, and opinions as well.

 

If nothing else is answered please answer the following.

First, What is the alumni doing/have done that is not in accordance with the best interest of this club. Second, I have not seen any justification to why the need to have access and privileges as well as certain positions of the alumni removed. Third, Still waiting to see the link from SGA. Forth, why the need to have the constitution completely redone.

 

SGA has never been a motivating factor of this club. We have never gotten any real substantial money from SGA. Not more than ($500), even then we weren't allowed to touch the money even when we went through all the proper channels. Even when we started this club, we didn't go through SGA. As we don't answer to SGA. We are the only club on campus that's purpose is to bring students to WCU and to keep them on campus. We are also the only club that can prove we do that. We answer to Residential Living. The one that pays for our Servers. Yes, we did everything we could to appease SGA, we went to the meetings every week, we turned all paperwork. They just couldn't handle a club that was bigger than theirs and they didn't have any power over. I am speaking from experience, I was often one of the ones that went to meetings, and turned in the paperwork. I went to budget meetings, etc.

 

Who pays for the domain? Who maintains the website? Who built the website? Who paid for the website? Who make sure the redirects are working? Who writes the codes for the servers? Who writes the codes for anything? Who has a working relationship with Keith Corzine? Who has a working relationship with ITS? Who even knows who our Faculty sponsor(s) are? Who knows who our Staff Sponsor is? Who has been invited to the Chancellors' home to have dinner because of his work with the gaming club? (This is just me ranting-Ignore if you wish)

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we really just need to talk. Nobody has really admitted to an "Issue" its all about applying a fix for something that we really dont understand. Which is why Kaz-ka and I should talk .. we need to address the issue not change rules. Just let this thread sit for a second.

 

NODICE play us some concession like music while we wait to get back to the show.

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Adam I believe the issue here is a concern for the club considering the fact that SGA has the potential to break us apart. There is a chance, if these allegations about the Alumni running the server, are true, we could lose everything, and I think that is what this is all about. I am going to ask Casey about this today when I go get the fliers so if everyone could just hold off a a couple of hours, I will get an answer from the woman who works with them her self.

 

Another thing is (and I agree with Josh on this one) is that if we could convince people on campus to help do the things to run these forums/servers then by all means we should at least try to let them because, well, this is there server and it was originally made for the students on campus to play PC games right? If we could teach these students how to run the servers even a little bit, then we would not have to worry about this and the Alumni wouldn't have to do so much to begin with AND these students would be picking up some useful skills along the way so it is a win-win. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should give the students here at WCU the opportunity to run the servers if we could teach them and just let the advisers, like it says in the constitution, advise people along the way on what to do concerning these matters instead of doing them themselves.

 

Oh and as a side note, we are actually gonna have a meeting like 1-2 weeks after the LAN so I'm canceling this one. Sorry for the inconvenience everyone, it just slipped my mind that we were going to have another meeting right after the LAN anyway.

 

Oh and Adam, we need to talk about Ephraim's permissions pertaining to the constitution. Thanks, and again, Im sorry for the mix up everyone.

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This is essentially killing off any PC side gaming that the club still has left.

I really hope for the sake of the club that this does not happen. The Alumni have put too much work into this club to watch it fail like this.

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Sorry it took me so long to post, last night was a long night. And Adam, if you want to talk over the phone still, it'll have to wait until I get out of class and am done hanging up fliers. That will be sometime around 5:00. Sorry if this isnt soon enough but I wanna go ahead and put up the fliers as soon as possible.

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