plans to build a mosque at ground zero

[lockEm 0]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1278922/Plans-mosque-Ground-Zero.html

[adam37 0]

oh no she didnt

[YouWinGameOver 0]

I lolled

[Freezer 0]

you will probably flame me for saying this but I don't have a big problem with it. it wasn't the entire Muslim faith that attacked us, it was the minority. but then again this is the country that attacked Iraq when the perpetrators were in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

[YouWinGameOver 0]

...they were saudi.

[MajorMajorMajor 0]

you will probably flame me for saying this but I don't have a big problem with it. it wasn't the entire Muslim faith that attacked us, it was the minority.

 

agreed

[rcon_l@nce 0]

People really need to stop being so ignorant.

I live across the Hudson and I have no problem with this.

 

People need to become more accepting of one another, especially in somewhere like New York.

Ideas like this make us no different than the "ridiculous Arab terrorists" that want us out of their country.

[MasterP 0]

When the majority refuses to condemn the actions of the extremist minority they send a clear message that they don't truely have a problem with the minority's actions. It's sad when Islamic leaders in THIS COUNTRY won't even condemn the actions of the extremists publicly. If Islam is a religion of peace, which it isn't but that's not the point, why would it be hard to say the actions of terrorists are wrong and their interpretations of the Quran are incorrect?

 

This is intended to be a slap in the face. There is not, and cannot be, any other intention and American hatred towards the religion of Islam will only get worse if they pull *edited* like this.

[rcon_l@nce 0]

Should all of the Catholic officials condemn for the Catholic extremists that have recently made the news?

They are just as wrong as the Arab officials in this sense, but of course that isn't brought up as an argument because, as the majority, why would Catholics in this country ever admit their wrongs?

 

And when did "the majority" refuse to condemn "the minority" and their actions? All Muslims are not terrorists and should have the ability to live and pray where they want, how they want. As the "melting pot" of the world, why do people still feel the need to label majority and minority? Can people not accept one another as equals and treat them as they would like to be treated?

[lockEm 0]

you will probably flame me for saying this but I don't have a big problem with it. it wasn't the entire Muslim faith that attacked us, it was the minority.

 

agreed

 

x2

[MasterP 0]

Should all of the Catholic officials condemn for the Catholic extremists that have recently made the news?

They are just as wrong as the Arab officials in this sense, but of course that isn't brought up as an argument because, as the majority, why would Catholics in this country ever admit their wrongs?

The Catholic "extremists" have been heavily condemned by high-profile Catholic leaders and religious representatives speaking to the media. From day one.

 

And when did "the majority" refuse to condemn "the minority" and their actions?

Not a single high-profile Islam leader has condemned the actions of extremests. Not one Imam (preacher) has condemned the actions of the 9/11 hijackers. Sure they give the generic "we grieve for your loss" statement but never has their action actually been condemned. Whenever an Imam was cornered by Fox News he kept ducking the question and changing the topic.

 

All Muslims are not terrorists and should have the ability to live and pray where they want, how they want. As the "melting pot" of the world, why do people still feel the need to label majority and minority? Can people not accept one another as equals and treat them as they would like to be treated?

That's the thing, they already pray where they want, how they want. They do it in airports and planes, in subways and other mass transit. Whenever someone gets freaked out by their actions and report them, even when their actions warrant looking in to, the reporting person is sued for everything they own, their face is put on the cover of every newspaper, and the press labels them a racist bigot. We can now no longer report suspecious behavior at our most travelled, and most vulnerable, mass transit locations. Call me paranoid but that almost seems planned.

 

I've been in classes with Iranians, Pakistanis, and Saudis. I have no problem with them and at least on the surface they seem like decent human beings. What I do have a problem with is the en mass complacency the "mainstream" religion of Islam has towards its extremists. If a Babtist preacher discovered that one of his congregation was planning a terrorist attack, you know *edited* well he'd report it to the cops. If an Muslim Imam discovered the same, can you honestly sit there with a straight face and place your life in his hands that he'd do the same? If there's even a shred of doubt then you sir have no right to take any form of moral high ground in this argument.

 

Hmm that person looks like they're up to something. And what's that thing in their bag? Almost looks like it could be a gun. Hey look the metal detector he went through isn't on. I should probably report this but I don't want to get sued. Oh well, glad he's not on my flight.

 

Answer this, if a Christian extremist group destroyed the Abraj Al Bait Towers in Mecca do you really think they'd let christians build a church in part of the ruin? That's actually a test of how naive you are about how the world works but feel free to answer honestly.

[lockEm 0]

Should all of the Catholic officials condemn for the Catholic extremists that have recently made the news?

They are just as wrong as the Arab officials in this sense, but of course that isn't brought up as an argument because, as the majority, why would Catholics in this country ever admit their wrongs?

The Catholic "extremists" have been heavily condemned by high-profile Catholic leaders and religious representatives speaking to the media. From day one.

 

And when did "the majority" refuse to condemn "the minority" and their actions?

Not a single high-profile Islam leader has condemned the actions of extremests. Not one Imam (preacher) has condemned the actions of the 9/11 hijackers. Sure they give the generic "we grieve for your loss" statement but never has their action actually been condemned. Whenever an Imam was cornered by Fox News he kept ducking the question and changing the topic.

 

All Muslims are not terrorists and should have the ability to live and pray where they want, how they want. As the "melting pot" of the world, why do people still feel the need to label majority and minority? Can people not accept one another as equals and treat them as they would like to be treated?

That's the thing, they already pray where they want, how they want. They do it in airports and planes, in subways and other mass transit. Whenever someone gets freaked out by their actions and report them, even when their actions warrant looking in to, the reporting person is sued for everything they own, their face is put on the cover of every newspaper, and the press labels them a racist bigot. We can now no longer report suspecious behavior at our most travelled, and most vulnerable, mass transit locations. Call me paranoid but that almost seems planned.

 

I've been in classes with Iranians, Pakistanis, and Saudis. I have no problem with them and at least on the surface they seem like decent human beings. What I do have a problem with is the en mass complacency the "mainstream" religion of Islam has towards its extremists. If a Babtist preacher discovered that one of his congregation was planning a terrorist attack, you know *edited* well he'd report it to the cops. If an Muslim Imam discovered the same, can you honestly sit there with a straight face and place your life in his hands that he'd do the same? If there's even a shred of doubt then you sir have no right to take any form of moral high ground in this argument.

 

Answer this, if a Christian extremist group destroyed the Abraj Al Bait Towers in Mecca do you really think they'd let christians build a church in part of the ruin?

 

[MasterP 0]

I mean I know it's hard to prove yourself wrong on moral and social issues, especially when you can't answer the hard questions about the high ground you just laid claim to, so let me sum up how this argument ended.

 

[rcon_l@nce 0]

Thus the reason why I tend to not have a serious conversation on forums. When things are in writing, people tend to analyze it piece by piece.

 

Regardless, from a social and political context, your statements hold water much better than mine.

Morally, I have a very hard time agreeing with your thought process. Call me naive, but I have always been one to believe that morals should come before politics and the norms of society, but in a far-from-perfect world, it cannot be further from the case. Morally, the fact that people cannot accept others different from themselves upsets me. I really do not feel that it is a slap in the face; I can understand how it can be taken that way, but I personally do not feel the same way, and I know plenty of people affected by the attacks.

 

And to stroke your ego, no, I don't believe that they would allow such a thing to be built. Lets just leave it at that

 

/seriousconversationinthreads

 

PS. Lawl at watching FOX news.

Edited May 19, 2010 by rcon_l@nce

[newrayz 0]

i'm *edited*ed my college town voted to not allow a new hooters open near my dorm. I was le *edited*ed.

[MasterP 0]

PS. Lawl at watching FOX news.

They're the only ones that even attempted to put an imam on the spot about it. Had MSNBC interviewed one and asked hardball questions I'd have watched them too.

 

When it comes to getting beat up on the air, Christians and republicans hold a monopoly with the mainstream news. Everyone else either gets a pass or a game of slow pitch softball.

 

I don't think this has anything to do with not being able to get along with others or hatred, what they're doing is just inappropriate given the circumstances that created the ruins they're building on. At this point I don't think Budists could get away with doing that either. Hell a church would probably outrage some people as well. For the next 20-30 years there's going to be outrage at the thought of what was done to those buildings, building a mosque there is just a bad idea until the general outrage over the event has faded from memory.

[torankusu 0]

you will probably flame me for saying this but I don't have a big problem with it. it wasn't the entire Muslim faith that attacked us, it was the minority.

 

agreed

 

x2

x3

 

People really need to stop being so ignorant.

I live across the Hudson and I have no problem with this.

Ditto.

 

People need to become more accepting of one another, especially in somewhere like New York.

Ideas like this make us no different than the "ridiculous Arab terrorists" that want us out of their country.

Hmm, I always felt like we were fairly open-minded in this area. I mean it's not like there is an absence of hate crimes here, but I would think that the majority of us are tolerant of each other.

 

I'm planning on moving out of the tri-state area sometime in the summer and one of the things that I told my boyfriend I was going to miss was the diversity.

[MajorMajorMajor 0]

I mean its not like its even that close to GZ. If they were going to build ON the site, or in freedom tower I could understand the uproar, but zone probably permits only a few placed in Manhattan and they were lucky to get that site.

 

Secondly, i think its really retarded to expect the Imams or leaders to "represent" Islam as a whole when it comes to criticizing those who participated in the 9/11 attacks.

 

For example, say I didn't vote for Obama, and therefore he does not represent me politically, so do I want other people to assume I think universal healthcare and abortions are awesome and should be allowed? No, I have my own individual opinions that I can express myself. Don't expect the leaders to fully represent that population. Are those leaders going to be running that mosque? Doubtful. It's probably an American Organization which means they have full rights to use that building as everyone else.

 

Denying rights to american citizens is wrong, even if it does "offend" other.

[Nickname 0]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm

[newrayz 0]

When it comes to getting beat up on the air, Christians and republicans hold a monopoly with the mainstream news. Everyone else either gets a pass or a game of slow pitch softball.

 

 

Maybe it's warranted? Besides, it's not every christian or republican, just the crazy hypocritical ones. Also, by mainstream, you mean everyone else BUT Fox? Even though they are the epitome of MSM.

Edited May 20, 2010 by NuRayZ

[rcon_l@nce 0]

People need to become more accepting of one another, especially in somewhere like New York.

Ideas like this make us no different than the "ridiculous Arab terrorists" that want us out of their country.

Hmm, I always felt like we were fairly open-minded in this area. I mean it's not like there is an absence of hate crimes here, but I would think that the majority of us are tolerant of each other.

 

I'm planning on moving out of the tri-state area sometime in the summer and one of the things that I told my boyfriend I was going to miss was the diversity.

 

 

What I meant was that most people are so open-minded around here that the people who are not really need to catch on, especially since it is so diverse around here. =)

Edited May 20, 2010 by rcon_l@nce

[torankusu 0]

People need to become more accepting of one another, especially in somewhere like New York.

Ideas like this make us no different than the "ridiculous Arab terrorists" that want us out of their country.

Hmm, I always felt like we were fairly open-minded in this area. I mean it's not like there is an absence of hate crimes here, but I would think that the majority of us are tolerant of each other.

 

I'm planning on moving out of the tri-state area sometime in the summer and one of the things that I told my boyfriend I was going to miss was the diversity.

 

 

What I meant was that most people are so open-minded around here that the people who are not really need to catch on, especially since it is so diverse around here. =)

I kinda thought that's what you meant, but I wasn't sure because you said they need to be more accepting, not that they are. ^^

 

Another thing I'm going to miss about here: the pizza.

 

Edit: I just noticed something weird. It says in the quote that you quoted toranky, but I'm torankusu, lol. I've never changed my name on here before. Did you add that in yourself? xP If not, that's strange.

Edited May 20, 2010 by torankusu

[MasterP 0]

I mean its not like its even that close to GZ. If they were going to build ON the site, or in freedom tower I could understand the uproar, but zone probably permits only a few placed in Manhattan and they were lucky to get that site.

Did you look at the map of where it's going to be built? It's pretty *edited* close.

 

Secondly, i think its really retarded to expect the Imams or leaders to "represent" Islam as a whole when it comes to criticizing those who participated in the 9/11 attacks.

 

For example, say I didn't vote for Obama, and therefore he does not represent me politically, so do I want other people to assume I think universal healthcare and abortions are awesome and should be allowed? No, I have my own individual opinions that I can express myself. Don't expect the leaders to fully represent that population. Are those leaders going to be running that mosque? Doubtful. It's probably an American Organization which means they have full rights to use that building as everyone else.

Very poor example.

 

If an American extremist group bombed Mecca, how fast do you think Obama and leaders from literally every Christian sect would criticize the attack? They'd be fighting each other backstage for the right to go on the air next.

 

Denying rights to american citizens is wrong, even if it does "offend" other.

Considering New York City has a bad history of making Christians fight for the right to build or expand churches, is it really fair to let Muslims get an instant pass on the legal suits and public outcry?

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm

Source fail.

 

Any website that has a laundry list of illegal activities of the Catholic Church but then barely mentions the illegal activities and human rights violations of Scientology is biased. There's really no way to get around that one.

 

When it comes to getting beat up on the air, Christians and republicans hold a monopoly with the mainstream news. Everyone else either gets a pass or a game of slow pitch softball.

Maybe it's warranted? Besides, it's not every christian or republican, just the crazy hypocritical ones. Also, by mainstream, you mean everyone else BUT Fox? Even though they are the epitome of MSM.

By mainstream I mean the biased *edited* that the majority of the press runs with. When proven wrong they simply delete it from their website and pretend the article was never written. WSJ and NYT in particular are really bad about that, CNN is slowly creeping in that direction as well. MSNBC simply doesn't care when they're wrong because they're too dumb to realize it most of the time.

 

To some extent it's warranted but if you don't think MSNBC bashes anyone with an ® beside their name regardless of their message or the discussion topic you really need to watch their primetime lineup more often. Watching it just once would be a good start. CNN isn't quite as bad but they've got some real failures on there too.

[MajorMajorMajor 0]

Did you look at the map of where it's going to be built? It's pretty *edited* close.

its at least 3-4 buildings away. plenty to not even be seen when standing at GZ

Very poor example.

 

If an American extremist group bombed Mecca, how fast do you think Obama and leaders from literally every Christian sect would criticize the attack? They'd be fighting each other backstage for the right to go on the air next.

I would still not consider the leaders of this country to accurately represent me and would wish that people around the world would not blame me for an attack I had no say in. Today talking with anyone random, especially in Blacksburg, Connecticut, and Newport News, they consider Muslims and Hindus to all be terrorist when not even 0.001% are. Even if none of the Islamic leaders in the world condemned the attack I would still not blame the entire religious population for it like we have in America.

 

The example was not meant to be taken literally anyways. Consider it a parable illustrating a point:

 

Each person has a different view point and penalizing a massive portion of the world for the attacks based on an unbelievably small population is ridiculous.

 

I'm just speaking from what observations I've made where I've lived. There may be sources on the internet proving me wrong, but I never trust statistics.

 

Considering New York City has a bad history of making Christians fight for the right to build or expand churches, is it really fair to let Muslims get an instant pass on the legal suits and public outcry?

Who said anything about a free pass? All I think is that they should have the same opportunity to build there as I am to build my church there. The fact a terrorist attack happened there should have no sway one way or another.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm

Source fail.

agreed. LOL

[newrayz 0]

so where was foxnews and the msm when a guy tried to blow up a mosque during service in florida?

 

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/fbi-finds-pipe-bomb-used-in-blast-at-jacksonville-fla-mosque/19475001

 

but if a guy named Mohammad did the exact same thing to a church somewhere he'd be a terrorist right?